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Most have read the epistle, but we reviewed it the 5.7, as ballictics (not regular cops) firearms police from a multiplicity of agencies, none smaller than 5,000. These are people who understand the labwork and have seen the autopsey room too many times. We don't want to play who sprayed the firehy...

No i didn't trade my FiveseveN in, duhhh! I traded my glock 31 (.357sig full frame) for TWO Glock 10mm's. I picked up the Glock20C (full size) and its little brother the Glock29 (small frame). The 21C has a standard 15rd capacity that can be adapted for +2 carry, and the 29 holds 10 rounds with the...

Even ss197 and ss195 both penetrate level2 vest, as far as details of restricted ammo goes, it isnt my to make publick, and totaly up to Jay. The picture #4 shows 3 shots (EA Protector 40gr vmax) : 1shot from the left is "no vest" 2shots from the right lev2 vest. That looks like about 14" of penetr...

RAPTOR threw level2 vest: http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s101/romadents/ULTRARAPTOR011.jpg RAPTOR http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s101/romadents/ULTRARAPTOR008.jpg XTERMINATOR http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s101/romadents/Xterminator45grTSX001.jpg PROTECTOR trew lev2 vest http://i150.pho...

Here you go, and No you aren't as up to speed as to our restricted round can do since the video of it is in the LEO only section. Vitaliy has more images hosted on his account. Hopefully he will come along and re-post them. I will then put them in EA's video thread so everything is in one spot. htt...

I am also aware of the restricted round and it's penetration characteristics. I contemplated loading some up using the same components in 5.56 to test it out on some 1/2" plate steel. 3/8" plate still gets punched by M855 out to 120+ yards. That bullet loaded in .223/5.56 will make M855 look like a...

Yes, I am stubborn. No denial. Yes, I thought this thread would just re-hash, but it was suggested that I start it, so I did. COM--what I meant was the thoracic or abdominal cavity and the organs that are within, even including the spine from a frontal shot. The only rounds I am aware of from EA th...

Yes, I am stubborn. No denial. Yes, I thought this thread would just re-hash, but it was suggested that I start it, so I did. COM--what I meant was the thoracic or abdominal cavity and the organs that are within, even including the spine from a frontal shot. The only rounds I am aware of from EA tha...

I have formed some opinions of the 5.7x28 when launched from a pistol, and I will be honest, most are negative. Most of the "experts" dislike it as well. I am open to logical debate over these points, and would be interested to know if I am wrong, and if I am, please show me where. Problem #1. Lack ...

Doubletap. Starting a new thread.

[Like I said, I am not adverse to changing my opinion if you can logically argue against what I currently believe. Start a new thread. State your beliefs succinctly, and the basis for them if you can. Be open to feedback. I feel that I have conveyed all my beliefs about the round here, and the feed...

Doctor Roberts has already gone over the data of the Ft Hood shooting and was not impressed with the performance of the round, clinically speaking. He didn't go over data, he browsed news reports. I am not sure how shooting unsuspecting, unarmed individuals, who were confined in a relatively small ...

Do you know what this round that struck the wrist was eventually stopped by, or did it depart for the blue yonder, or is it unknown? It was a media report and they only mentioned the type of wounds based on location and they did not elaborate. I really do hate the media. Maybe that's why I don't wa...

I question whether Dr. Roberts has reviewed all of the data of the Fort Hood shooting. Kim Munley was shot in the wrist and both legs. The doctors feared she wouldn't survive due to blood loss. I don't know how many humans have died instantly from GSW's to the thighs, but it couldn't be much higher...

Doctor Roberts has already gone over the data of the Ft Hood shooting and was not impressed with the performance of the round, clinically speaking. He posted about it on M4C.net, and while this is an AR-based site, I think it would be going out on a very long limb to say that Dr. Roberts cares about...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=23&t=631497" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Keep in mind that this sample-size is all but worthless, however, I do see a trend emerging. NOONE is going to argue that a 1-1/4 broadhead doesn't create a larger permanent cavity/sever more in i...

Since you refuse to listen to any of the FBI testing protocol or Fackler or Roberts or Marshal, it's really kindof difficult to find good evidence that the people of this site have not already written off. Be careful of personalizing, generalizing, and over-stating. I think what you'll actually fin...

This blurb still leaves people with more questions. For sake of argument, we'll say his accounts of ther 5.7 are true. However how did the round fail? Did it require him all 20 shots to down a BG? Did it not take the BG down because the round struck the person in the shoulder? Was the BG wearing a ...

Anyone can put anything in their bio... Yes, but it's kindof tough to get a fake letterhead from your department with your badge number, etc. Many of these sites have officer-only sections that require quite a bit of information from you that would be rather hard to fake. I agree though, still not ...

Llagoud wrote:Damn these "discussions" get old fast. I don't even read them anymore. :laugh:

Pretty much the sentiments of the people on the other side of the fence as well. But I try to give things a chance even after others have told me they are pointless.

Anyone can put anything in their bio... Yes, but it's kindof tough to get a fake letterhead from your department with your badge number, etc. Many of these sites have officer-only sections that require quite a bit of information from you that would be rather hard to fake. I agree though, still not ...

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/819109787" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "I have had real world experience with the FN 5.7 and for CCW it is not a small gun bigger than my 45, but it is light, I do care about ballistics because I have seen that round fail in r...

I do not know of any credible source that "discounts the .40 as ineffective" That is the point. It is discounted as ineffective, but not based on anything credible or relevant. Similarly, the 5.7x28mm is discounted as ineffective, but not based on anything credible or relevant. Again, a lot of the ...

It has been around for over 2 decades. The actual 5.7x28mm as it's known today has only been around for 16yrs. in 94 the SS90 cartridge was replaced with the SS190 cartridge. 98 was when the FSN was introduced. It wasn't till 1999 that the Houston TX PD was the first US LEA to adopt the P90. It was...

As to the .22 trumping the 5.7 in gel from a pistol in both penetration and tissue disruption. You can CLEARLY see that it DOES tumble, and it does produce a wound profile very similar to the 5.7, only with adequate (over 12" ) penetration. The facts are what they are. The .22 LR projectile in your...

Not exactly taboo, but pretty darned tacky. You ignore a few key variables: Time to first aid. Training of responders in first aid to combat trauma. Availability of materials for first aid. Ft. Hood was significantly different from VA Tech in all of the above. Seldom are there neatly layed out scen...

Mentioning Ft. Hood is a bit taboo, and I don't want to go into it too much, but I did an analysis of VATech (9mm) and Ft. Hood incidents and discovered this: Ft Hood (5.7, assuming 100 shots fired):Shots per hit: 2.32 VA Tech (9mm, assuming 170 shots fired): Shots per hit: 3.2 Ft Hood: Chance of fa...

556S, As i stated I have no opinion on the C&C article. This cartridge is fairly new, and actual incidents whether good or bad about it are hard to come by; at least for a civilian such as myself. People make claims, and reference the same reviews, and articles over and over again. The issue become...

Possibly it was lost in 2008 when the forum crashed. Someone here did the testing, maybe they can repost it. I think you are correct as I cannot find it. To the immediately above poster: Why should it be locked? Because your investment is being attacked logically and with fact? Why not have a polit...

f3rr37 wrote:If you look around this sight you will see how the 5.7 performs vs windshields.

*searching*

This thread/argument is somewhat worthless, typical, and hypothetical at best. If you happen to run into a human center of mass 12+ inches (without hitting a major organ or artery causing massive bleeding and death) , that would be very rare indeed. The point is, the 5.7 likely as not won't even ge...

Interesting points...especially on the backflow prevention valves. Do you know if goats have the same kinds of valves? I'm curious if there would be a difference between the pressure waves measured in goats' blood vessels (i.e. the Strasbourg stuff) and what would happen in humans. FWIW, specific e...

The only objects in the body that are damaged by these "waves" are unprotected, large nerves (such as the sciatic), and inelastic organs. People have taken .357 magnums to the head, straight through the brain, and lived. Rare, but it happens. All of the reading I have done and shootings that I have ...

This is very different than saying elastic tissue transmits shock-waves that will disrupt tissue not hit by the bullet. If the shock-wave deal were real, it would show up in autopsies. It does not. Especially not at sub 2200fps impact velocities. Courtney & Courtney noted that the damage caused by ...

This is very different than saying elastic tissue transmits shock-waves that will disrupt tissue not hit by the bullet. If the shock-wave deal were real, it would show up in autopsies. It does not. Especially not at sub 2200fps impact velocities. Courtney & Courtney noted that the damage caused by ...

Well, anybody volunteer to take one, for SCIENCE? :p Countless officers shoot countless people every day that have "volunteered", and the only way they stop is they give up, they hit the CNS, or they bleed out because a major blood-filled organ has been hit. I have never heard of an OIS resulting i...

Thats the thing gentlemen. There is no cut and dry. That's why ballistic gel only tell us so much. I am a fan of the show but give Mythbusters credit since they work very to put skeletal structure into their gel bodies before blowing them up. Mythbusters did register enough force transmitted throug...

This is very different than saying elastic tissue transmits shock-waves that will disrupt tissue not hit by the bullet. If the shock-wave deal were real, it would show up in autopsies. It does not. Especially not at sub 2200fps impact velocities. Courtney & Courtney noted that the damage caused by ...

Pressure waves and sonic waves are the same. Water and air are fluids. Thats why they use water tanks with die streams to test air foils. Yes, but this is not the same as a human torso. As I have stated, if you have ever seen a laproscopic proceedure anywhere in the torso/abdomonal region, you will...

This is very different than saying elastic tissue transmits shock-waves that will disrupt tissue not hit by the bullet. If the shock-wave deal were real, it would show up in autopsies. It does not. Especially not at sub 2200fps impact velocities. I've cleaned lots of deer that had tissue damage gre...

I don't totally agree with that statement about pressure waves. The human body is mostly water and that transmits pressure waves very well. Mythbuster just did an episode on that showing just how deadly they can be when the person is in the water when the pressure wave hits them. For me I have seen...

I am still on the fence with the 5.7. The fragmenting loads don't penetrate far enough to make me happy (less than 10" many times), and the SS195 is comparable to some .22 loads in gelatin from what I have seen, albeit it doesn't penetrate as far, so I guess inferior to them as they permanently disr...

How is cheek-weld with the optic?

My opinion has always been "Buy once, cry once". To that end, I just bought an Aimpoint T1 micro and ADM T1 Low mount for my Benelli M4S90 build. This is the best equipment I could find, and I am of the opinion that it is less likely to cost me irritation, etc. later.

Sorry, did not read that part. Good stuff!

I have and will never understand why shooting at a cop is any more serious than shooting at any other person who is acting within the law. At any rate, I don't see where we can gain much knowledge about the P90's effectiveness from the article. For all we know the rounds fragged in the door and shra...

I have a Gunsite customized (Ted Yost) Remington 870 that patterns most buck at 14-16" @ 25 yards.... and Federal Reduced Recoil 12 ga at 10." With the Ghost Ring Sites you put all your pellets in the upper thorasic at 30+ yards. One of my better customizing decisions.. you can really see the diffe...

This is all simply a logical progression. The US Government began as a triangle with the people as it's base and the president as the tip. Things have become inverted more and more. When the top (now base-shaped) becomes heavy enough, a revolution will occur. This is not me being "radical" or trying...

Baer is over rated and He is an ass. Krebs and Vickers are a whole lot better and nice guys. Caveat: This is my opinion. You mileage may vary. I have owned a Les Baer TRS. I sold it cheap to my Dad who likes target guns. That pistol was a work of art until you took it apart. Inside it looked like a...

hello folks. Question 1. My kimber manual states that recoil spring should be changed every 2000 rounds. I am sure I fired more than that, and have no real evidence to make me believe that is true or even necessary. Not necessary, but your pistol will thank you. Question 2. Extended guide rod, is i...

The case is nickel coated, supposed to make it feed easier. Oddly, my P226 Elite ST (sold) would NOT extract nickle-plated ammunition. I shot Speer GDHP and Ranger T through it and got 20-50% FTE's. Both are expensive, and ranger T is individually hand-inspected. It would shoot regular brass and ch...

potassium sulfate is a common inhibitor. I wouldnt go trying to blend your own though. All that will occur is increased pressure necessitating that the load be modified (reduced). The end-user will probably have no clue what they are doing to get flattened/pierced primers. +1 to your advice! Flash ...

I am of the opinion that the .45 round's advantage lies in large expanded diameters and massive amounts of tissue crushed. As long as the round has sufficient velocity to fully expand and penetrate, it is G2G. I think the last revision of the once dismally performing HST in 230gr standard pressure i...

They retain more of their original weight (usually ~95%). In other words, these bullets dont tend to come apart or break up on impact. They are known for reliable and controlled expansion. This property allows for superior penetration while maintaining good expansion. The 28% increased exansion tha...

Up Sides Tighter possible tolerances in machining No non-concentric core/jakets Better BC for weight/velocity. Increased effective range. Near 100% weight retention Environmentally friendly (Yay! lol) Down Sides Manufacturing costs Not available loaded from very many manufacturers (yet) Longer lengt...

Many slugs are "rifled" to promote spin once it leaves the barrel. Some even have a fin attached to promote a consistent flight. Utimately though, you can't can't beat a rifled slug with sabots (accuracywise). Mossberg makes the best rifled slug guns IMHO. I must also say that slugs aren't as power...

Wollychop wrote:I like the hornady SSTs

http://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=shop/ ... 5d6bc0ec9e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In a smooth-bore this would be a no-no. This is a sabot type slug and must be spin-stabalized.

I would recommend you try Winchester Power Point slugs as well as Remington "Sluggers". These are cheap and readily available. They are also slightly "different" diameters. Don't freak, it is just a few thousandths, my point is, some shotguns have a tighter bore than others depending on the company ...

Using a "Tornado" bore-brush will kill lead FAST in a shotgun barrel. I found that for me, the OOO Remington 3" Buckshot was the star performer out of anything MOD or less. It would keep 70-90% of the pellets on target (12"x14") out to about 45 yards. I was using a Benelli M4 and a Trulock MOD choke...

I have a Colt Match HBAR 5.56 1/9 twist AR-15 Type weapon. I am wondering if anyone knows the longest point that this could be used for target competitions? Maybe 300 yards? Longer? I know this isn't a 5.7X28 Question but I hate going to the AR-15 forum. Any help would be appreciated. Drivesector T...

panzermk2 wrote:It all goes onto an expense report.

Besides if I start hitting the 80proof Lisa would get upset when I call her Saturday while on top of some Mexican whore.

I'm too poor for Goose and Quervo. I stick with Everclear when I just feel the need.

I go to the gym and beat the hell out of myself on the weights and cardio. I have a lot of stress as a student in the medical field where each thing I do every day has the potential, in and of itself, to end my path. I find that the gym is the only acceptable way of getting this stress out of my sys...

Welcome to our site! FYI for new members, check in here: http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=555" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Welcome to 57forum.com , formally fivesevenforum.com. You have most likely found us while searching for more information about the 5.7x28 wea...

Hello all!