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View Full Version : Suspension of 2nd Amendment in NO


semiautots
09-11-2005, 06:43 PM
No doubt you've heard about the Mayor of New Orleans ordering the confiscation of privately and lawfully owned firearms a couple days ago. My question to you non-LEO's is would you give up your firearms if police/NG came to your door and asked/demanded them, and my second question is to you LEO's: Would you enforce such an order if you were given it?

How can a mayor suspend rights given by God and how can his police force follow? What would be the criminal/civil liability if you would not turn over your arms and chose to defend your rights?

It's a question we all need to think about.

Nosferatu
09-11-2005, 07:28 PM
I have thought about this and while I don't know exactly what I would do until the situation arises, I do think I would refuse to hand them over.

Worse comes to worse, I would give them a hunting rifle or something and hide the rest. There is no way in hell they are getting their hands on my primary means of self defense and preservation in a time when I would need them the most.

EMO5D
09-11-2005, 08:18 PM
I was thinking about this also. I'm not really sure what I would do but like nosferatu, i would not give up all of them...if any.

Either I have the right to carry or I don't. It's not a right if I can only carry when it's convenient for the government.

p99guy
09-11-2005, 09:38 PM
Semiautots...If I follow orders on something like that, there has to be a law in the penal code that covers it...not just somebody telling me "just because I said so". I will and have in the past refused an illegal order much to the chagrin of the city councilman ordering it. I will not violate someones civil rights. However I have had to do things I really didnt want to do.....example: serving an eviction notice on a 89 year old man that was bed ridden and on oxygen..had to be let in to see him by the home heath nurse. There is things that makes us fairly upset to do...as I do not hate my fellow man(or woman) If it were up to me alone, a person could own just about anything as long as they didnt screw up with it.
the F part of ATF would be out of a job.

semiautots
09-11-2005, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the reply, P99. If your state/locale were to suspend constitutional rights (which no state/locale has the constitutional authority to do) would you enforce that order? If you were a N.O. LEO, would you go to private domiciles and seize private firearms?

I see the California Highway Patrol is now being used in residential areas and is enforcing the California assault weapon ban and .50 BMG ban. New York City police enforce the defacto ban on firearms in NYC with no concern. Same with the D.C. police. It seems police personnel pretty much follow local/state law without regard to federal law. If a law makes it through the legislature and the governor signs it, LEO's will enforce it. While the N.O. confiscation is a mayoral order, and no doubt the courts will find it unconstitutional, why are the LEO's obeying it? Both N.O. officers and surrogate officers, as well as the national guard.

It's all very disturbing and, I guess, one more reason why the average, honest gun owner should keep a discerning eye pointed in the direction of police officers. If Bill Clinton were in office now, things would be much worse. But I can't think of how this situation in New Orleans could be much worse. The exact time and place where you need your AR-15/FAL, and the local police want you to give it to them and abandon your property.

To everyone else, do you trust the government and the police to always do what's right? Granted, New Orleans is not Grand Prairie, TX, but what is happening there is shocking to me.

p99guy
09-11-2005, 11:55 PM
I cant begin to hazard a guess as to what law, local ordnance, marshal law special power or edict from heaven they would be working under to go house to house collecting firearms from folks that arent causing a problem. But sitting here in Texas, there would have to be a darn good reason for us to do that.... you have to also realize that when you are alone you have some officer descresion, when you are in a group you dont have the leeway.
I have stopped a little old lady or two before the CHL exsisted that was carrying a handgun in their purse and there was no exemptions in play(traveling,going to/from a gun range etc.) And I could have took them to jail for UCW..unlawfull carrying of a weapon.
but once i determined they were not criminals, I let them go...did I follow the exact letter of the law? no I did not. But no common good would have been served by taking an elderly lady to jail that was harming no one. Now had a Sgt. been standing there...I may have not had the choice.

The Deviant
09-12-2005, 05:05 PM
I'll weigh in here too, since it really is something that grinds my axe. I'd do what Nosferatu suggested with the "Take this one - it's all I got." if push came to shove, but otherwise, as cliche as it sounds, "From my cold dead hands" would ring true...

That Mayor is a wackjob anyway, talking about how HE is going to do this and that with the National Guard troops. The Governor has already slapped him in place with a "YOU'LL DO NO SUCH THING." a few times.

If they want to start confiscation, they need to invoke martial law- something, last I checked, a Mayor can not do, then I'd be "fine with it".

Until that point comes (and it should NOT come in this situation-BTW) you can't arbitrarialy suspend constitutional rights. Especially if you are some idiot local-yocal Mayor who thinks he is something more.

$0.01 (delete is your friend)

p99guy
09-12-2005, 05:57 PM
I think that is a big part of the problem..they have a radio DJ for a mayor, that ran for the heck of it and accidently won(be careful what you wish for) I hear now that they have suspended making folks evacuate by force.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/1291/neworlea8tv.jpg

The Deviant
09-12-2005, 09:41 PM
Now *that* picture gets me misty ;)

triggerjerk
09-13-2005, 12:47 AM
I think that is a big part of the problem..they have a radio DJ for a mayor, that ran for the heck of it and accidently won(be careful what you wish for) I hear now that they have suspended making folks evacuate by force.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/1291/neworlea8tv.jpg


Can I join your club?

Dr.Ryan
09-17-2005, 08:06 PM
And foreigners wonder why most americans believe that gun registration leads to gun confiscation.

My property, be it my dog, truck, house, broken washing machine, gun, wife... (haha I hope you see the humor) is just that. My PRIVATE PROPERTY. The 5th amendment states specifically "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

What would I do if some cop demanded my weapons? I would probably give him some dirty underwear or stinky socks, they are by far the most lethal weapons in my arsenal. Quite often my wife states that she would rather be on the receiving end of my .50 BMG than touch my dirty underwear or socks :)

Yeah, thats what I'd do... Maybe they would bring them back clean and starched... Im getting giddy just thinking of the nice pressed lines on my long johns... :)

Seriously though, This is a tough decision. Do you follow the orders of a cop if you believe them to be unlawful? The Supreme Court in 1787 said that a citizen is within his right to use force against an agent of the government if He believes that the officer is acting outside the law and that his actions would reasonably result in the serious injury or death of the citizen. On the other hand, I would not want to be responsible for the wounding or death of a public servant who has no malice against my person. Quite simply put, he is "just following orders."

Would I voluntarily turn over my weapons? Unless they are talking about my socks or underwear, probably not. Would I voluntarily allow them access to my domicile, probably not. Were they to gain entrance would I attempt to stop them, probably not. I don't want to get shot more than anyone else does. Would I make it as difficult as possible to gain entrance? YES. Would I use non-violent means to preserve my property? Yes. Would I take a bullet in front of my children? NO.

This situation brings to light why we have a constitution, a bill of rights, and courts to seek redress against the government. At very least the "Mayor" should be held civily liable for his unlawful conduct. I would not shed a tear were he to be arrested for violating some ATF regulation on aquiring weapons without an FFL, straw man aquisitions, or someother thing like that. Heck if I know what to do, I only know I would be very angry and would probably show up to the next city council meeting with 3 week old dirty underwear and the socks directly off my feet. By the time everyone recovered, I could be three states away :)

7of7
09-18-2005, 12:53 AM
I thought I read that they were directed to take custody of the firearms that were left behind by people who evacuated and haven't returned. (Why someone would leave their guns behind is beyond me...) That makes a little sense there,... so they won't fall into the wrong hands,... but to go telling someone they have to give turn their guns over is a horse of a different color...

XakEp
09-19-2005, 03:40 PM
Come to my house and ask for my guns without me committing a crime xxxxxxxxx.

By very large caliber weapons. Thank heaven for Colorado.

p99guy
09-19-2005, 04:50 PM
well guys its mute point now and that period is over in N.O., so lets just let it settle.