PDA

View Full Version : New York Times Statistics:


thorfinn
04-19-2007, 09:34 AM
I received an email this morning from a family member asking about something he read in the new york times this morning.

"Josh:

This was in a New York Times article this morning and I sense the underlined numbers are not credible. What thinks you?

CB

“There are nearly 200 million firearms in private hands in the U.S., and more than 30,000 people — nearly 10 times the total number of Americans who have died in Iraq — are killed by those guns each year. In 1966 Americans were being killed by guns at the rate of 17,000 a year. An article in The Times examining such “rampages” as the Charles Whitman shootings said:

“Whatever the motivation, it seems clear that the way is made easier by the fact that guns of all sorts are readily available to Americans of all shades of morality and mentality.”

We’ve learned very little in 40 years.”

I've been fighting the 2nd ammendment battle for a long time and I'm well aware of where these numbers come from. Following is my response to him :

CB:

The 30,000 number is accurate.

CDC mortality stats from 2004(most recent year surveyed) puts it at 29,569.

What they dont tell you is that they include suicides, legal self defense shoots and accidental deaths in the stats.

Suicides account for more than half. 2004 suicides by firearm - 16,750.

This leaves 12,819 NON suicides.

Legal shoots account for only 311 unfortunately.

Unintentional shoots only account for 649.

Homicides account for the remaining 11,624

Those are the actual stats.

Here's something else thats kind of interesting.

From the CDC Mortality Statistics center.

Homicides in which a gun was used as the instrument:

2004(most recent year available)

Vermont, Virtually no gun laws, no permit required to own or carry, no waiting periods.....Just a simple quick call to the FBI to perform a background check.

2004 Firearm Homicides - 2 thats right.....TWO

Washington DC. All out handgun ban. No provision for carrying, near impossible to own, it is a de facto "Gun Free Zone"

2004 Firearm Homicides - 137

For those that blame the population sizes....VT has roughly 100,000 MORE people than the district of Columbia.

Josh

btown02
04-19-2007, 09:41 AM
The problem with the article is that it's the New York Times.

thorfinn
04-19-2007, 09:50 AM
Our president wrote a letter to the editor in the times yesterday and I've been getting hatemail ever since.........Wish he'd asked me first.

Lay down with pigs and you get covered in something....I cant remember what.........

smeman
04-19-2007, 10:13 AM
Rose fertilizer?

btown02
04-19-2007, 10:14 AM
Lay down with pigs and you get covered in something....I cant remember what.........
Porkchops. :D

jmz5
04-19-2007, 10:43 AM
[Homer Simpson] MMMM, porkchops. [/Homer Simpson]

btown02
04-19-2007, 11:00 AM
Back to being serious for a moment, but I do like porkchops, the reply you sent to your family member shows the breakdown on that 30,000 number. You see the 30,000 number in articles a lot and almost never see the list as to what type of gun deaths are in that number. It's a shame that the news media are not required to tell the truth, the whole truth.

Esteves
04-19-2007, 11:04 AM
another technique that's often used is to compare the US' combined (including suicides) gun-death statistics against other nations' single-category statistics.

thorfinn
04-19-2007, 12:12 PM
Brady has been caught numerous times including individuals up to the age of 24 in their "Guns kill XXX# of kids a day BS".

I dont like cherry picking statistics to push an agenda..........regardless of which side is doing it.

Capers
04-19-2007, 12:28 PM
This is why you have to research statistics and how they perform them before you can draw any valid conclusions from the evidence.

btown02
04-19-2007, 12:44 PM
That's the good or bad thing about statistics, depending on which side of the battle you're on, you can slant them to make them fit your agenda.

Medula Oblongata
04-19-2007, 03:49 PM
Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.."?

thorfinn
04-19-2007, 03:54 PM
Yep.

CDC also treats legal defensive shoots by civilians as "Homicides".....not "Legal Shoots".

"Legal Shoots" only applies to law enforcement in their stats.

Sniperjoe
04-19-2007, 09:32 PM
ive personnaly heard people are defended by civilians with firearms 1.6 million times a year, is this true?

btown02
04-20-2007, 02:55 AM
ive personnaly heard people are defended by civilians with firearms 1.6 million times a year, is this true?
The NRA says guns are used for personal protection over two million times a year.

rips31
04-20-2007, 05:11 PM
The NRA says guns are used for personal protection over two million times a year.
the only prob saying that stat is 'nra says.' every anti will jump all over that part.

Esteves
04-20-2007, 05:14 PM
the only prob saying that stat is 'nra says.' every anti will jump all over that part.

Here's the official quote, with citation:

Handguns are used for protection against criminals nearly two million times per year, up to five times more often than to commit crimes. (Kleck, "The Frequency of Defensive Gun Use," in Kates and Kleck, The Great American Gun Debate, S.F.: Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy, 1997.)

From: http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=17