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View Full Version : PLEA Act / HR 1784 (Anti-FiveSeveN Bill) introduced !!


Killbot
04-18-2007, 04:55 PM
This is for the CURRENT congress, not a rehash of a previous bill introduced a few years ago. Yes I know this has little chance, but in the current enviroment, we CANNOT sit on our collective asses.

After Monday, we cannot just dismiss such bills like we once did, at least not for the next few months.




Here is what I got from ar15.com, which most of us have seen before

PLEA Act (Introduced in House)

HR 1784 IH


110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 1784
To protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by banning the Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges, testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor, and prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase of such handguns or ammunition by civilians.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

March 29, 2007
Mr. ENGEL (for himself, Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York, Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. FARR, Ms. WATSON, Mr. BRADY of Pennsylvania, Mrs. MALONEY of New York, Mr. PALLONE, Mr. SHERMAN, Mrs. LOWEY, Ms. WOOLSEY, and Mr. MORAN of Virginia) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by banning the Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges, testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor, and prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase of such handguns or ammunition by civilians.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Protect Law Enforcement Armor Act' or the `PLEA Act'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSE.

(a) Findings- Congress finds the following:

(1) Law enforcement is facing a new threat from handguns and accompanying ammunition, which are designed to penetrate police body armor, being marketed and sold to civilians.

(2) A Five-seveN Pistol and accompanying ammunition, manufactured by FN Herstal of Belgium as the `5.7 x 28 mm System', has recently been recovered by law enforcement on the streets. The Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS192 cartridges are legally available for purchase by civilians under current law.

(3) The Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS192 cartridges are capable of penetrating level IIA armor. The manufacturer advertises that ammunition fired from the Five-seveN will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters and that the ammunition travels at 2100 feet per second.

(4) The Five-seveN Pistol , and similar handguns designed to use ammunition capable of penetrating body armor, pose a devastating threat to law enforcement.

(b) Purpose- The purpose of this Act is to protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by--

(1) testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor; and

(2) prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase by civilians of the Five-seveN Pistol , ammunition for such pistol , or any other handgun that uses ammunition found to be capable of penetrating body armor.

SEC. 3. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) Expansion of Definition of Armor Piercing Ammunition- Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking `or' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

`(iii) a projectile that--

`(I) may be used in a handgun; and

`(II) the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor.'.

(b) Determination of Capability of Projectiles To Penetrate Body Armor- Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

`(2) The standards promulgated pursuant to paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the type of handgun used, the length of the barrel of the handgun, the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile, and the design of the projectile.

`(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.'.

SEC. 4. ARMOR PIERCING HANDGUNS AND AMMUNITION.

(a) In General- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(aa) Five-SeveN Pistol -

`(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, market, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive--

`(A) the Fabrique Nationale Herstal Five-SeveN Pistol ;

`(B) 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges; or

`(C) any other handgun that uses armor piercing ammunition.

`(2) EXCEPTIONS- This subsection shall not apply to--

`(A) any firearm or armor piercing ammunition manufactured for, and sold exclusively to, military, law enforcement, or intelligence agencies of the United States; and

`(B) the manufacture, possession, transfer, receipt, shipment, or delivery of a firearm or armor piercing ammunition by a licensed manufacturer, or any person acting pursuant to a contract with a licensed manufacturer, for the purpose of examining and testing such firearm or ammunition to determine whether paragraph (1) applies to such firearm.'.

(b) Penalties- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `or (q)' and inserting `(q), or (aa)'.

Capers
04-18-2007, 05:14 PM
haha, they are banning the ss190? you can tell they have no idea what they are talking about

boulderchild
04-18-2007, 05:42 PM
is senator McCarthy employed by the brady bunch, i mean campaign? it seems like she gets her legislation straight from their email alerts. also do you know the bills status?

btown02
04-18-2007, 05:45 PM
It may be new, but as you can see it is almost word for word the same as the older one that failed.



PLEA Act (Introduced in Senate)

S 527 IS


109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 527
To protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by banning the Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges, testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor, and prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase of such handguns or ammunition by civilians.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 3, 2005
Mr. LAUTENBERG (for himself, Mr. CORZINE, Mr. SCHUMER, and Mrs. CLINTON) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by banning the Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges, testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor, and prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase of such handguns or ammunition by civilians.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Protect Law Enforcement Armor Act' or the `PLEA Act'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSE.

(a) Findings- Congress finds the following:

(1) Law enforcement is facing a new threat from handguns and accompanying ammunition, which are designed to penetrate police body armor, being marketed and sold to civilians.

(2) A Five-seveN Pistol and accompanying ammunition, manufactured by FN Herstal of Belgium as the `5.7 x 28 mm System,' has recently been recovered by law enforcement on the streets. The Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS192 cartridges are legally available for purchase by civilians under current law.

(3) The Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS192 cartridges are capable of penetrating level IIA armor. The manufacturer advertises that ammunition fired from the Five-seveN will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters and that the ammunition travels at 2100 feet per second.

(4) The Five-seveN Pistol, and similar handguns designed to use ammunition capable of penetrating body armor, pose a devastating threat to law enforcement.

(b) Purpose- The purpose of this Act is to protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by--

(1) testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor; and

(2) prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase by civilians of the Five-seveN Pistol, ammunition for such pistol, or any other handgun that uses ammunition found to be capable of penetrating body armor.

SEC. 3. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) Expansion of Definition of Armor Piercing Ammunition- Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking `or' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

`(iii) a projectile that--

`(I) may be used in a handgun; and

`(II) the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor.'.

(b) Determination of Capability of Projectiles to Penetrate Body Armor- Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

`(2) The standards promulgated pursuant to paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the type of handgun used, the length of the barrel of the handgun, the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile, and the design of the projectile.

`(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.'

SEC. 4. ARMOR PIERCING HANDGUNS AND AMMUNITION.

(a) In General- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding after subsection (y):

`(z) Five-seveN Pistol-

`(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, market, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive--

`(A) the Fabrique Nationale Herstal Five-SeveN Pistol;

`(B) 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges; or

`(C) any other handgun that uses armor piercing ammunition.

`(2) EXCEPTIONS- This subsection shall not apply to--

`(A) any firearm or armor piercing ammunition manufactured for, and sold exclusively to, military, law enforcement, or intelligence agencies of the United States; and

`(B) the manufacture, possession, transfer, receipt, shipment, or delivery of a firearm or armor piercing ammunition by a licensed manufacturer, or any person acting pursuant to a contract with a licensed manufacturer, for the purpose of examining and testing such firearm or ammunition to determine whether paragraph (1) applies to such firearm.'.

(b) Penalties- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `or (q)' and inserting `(q), or (z)'.
http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/afterdark/buttons/report.gif (http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/report.php?p=5456) http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/afterdark/buttons/ip.gif (http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/postings.php?do=getip&p=5456)

rips31
04-18-2007, 08:08 PM
go ahead and ban ss190 and ss192. civvies can't get ss190 and i'm sure that the law will exempt leo. ss192 isn't made anymore, so we shouldn't really care. ok, unless you have a full can of ss192 sitting around, waiting for shtf. :D

Medula Oblongata
04-18-2007, 08:09 PM
This is what it should read




PLEF Act (Introduced in Senate)

S 527 IS


110th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 911
To protect the Nation's Private Citizen's by banning treacherous liberal's from speaking in the People's house, to prevent them from introducing meaningless legislation that only impacts law-abiding citizens, testing Representatives for capability to desecrate the Constitution of the United States and Bill of Rights, and prohibiting the promulgation, affirmation, or sustination of such bills by members of Congress.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

A BILL
Nation's Private Citizen's by banning treacherous liberal's from speaking in the People's house, to prevent them from introducing meaningless legislation that only impacts law-abiding citizens, testing Representatives for capability to desecrate the Constitution of the United States and Bill of Rights, and prohibiting the promulgation, affirmation, or sustination of such bills by members of Congress.



Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Protect Lawful Excercise of Freedom' or the `PLEF Act'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSE.

(a) Findings- Congress finds the following:

(1) Liberal legislators have an agenda to disarm the American public.

(2) Systematic removal and lessening of rights by a liberal Congress and an activist Judiciary have jeapordized the rights of all law-abiding Americans to excercise their individual and collective rights to bear arms for the protection of self and neighbor.

(3) The liberal legislatures of all states have intruded and weakened the protections of all Private Citizens to the protection of the assumption of innocense, have withdrawn the right to be secure in their person, papers, effects without a warrant issued by a Court of competant jurasdiction and upon oath or affirmation, and; have disregarded the protection of searches and seizures of private property without just cause and due process and not for the use of the public and without just compensation.

(4) The liberal legislators have seized property, rights, and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights.

(b) Purpose- The purpose of this Act is to protect the Nation's Private Citizenry by-

(1) testing politicians to determine their ability and desire to destroy the Bill of Rights; and

(2) prohibiting the speaking, acting, working, posession, affirmation, solicitiation, or promulgation of any sound, written material, or espousal of belief to the contrary of the laws of the land, the Constitution of the United States of America, or the Bill of Rights.

SEC. 3. Liberal Treacherous Scum.

(a) Expansion of Definition of Sedition- Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking `or' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

`(iii) a speaker, author, or transferrer that--

`(I) may be used to attack the rights of private individuals; and

`(II) the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of defeating personal liberty.'.

(b) Determination of Capability of Defeating Personal Liberty- Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing politicians against a Civil Liberty Exemplar.

`(2) The standards promulgated pursuant to paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the type of media used, the length of the speech or handbill, the amount and kind of language used to voice the opinion, and the design of the author.

`(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Civil Liberty Exemplar' means liberties that the Attorney General determines are the base minimum afforded protection under all applicable law and custom.'

SEC. 4. Treacherous Words and Actions

(a) In General- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding after subsection (y):

`(z) Members of the Democrat, Green, or Worker's Party-

`(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, market, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive--

`(A) Any material, which in nature is treasenous or sedicious;

`(B) Any book or handbill written by Corolyn McCarthy, Hillary Clinton, Charles Schumer, Ted Kennedy; or

`(C) any other person who espouses similiar treacherous idealogy.

`(2) EXCEPTIONS- This subsection shall not apply to--

`(A) any person who had had a lobotomy; and

`(B) Those who are currently under the care of a psychiatric physician or who are comitted to a mental facility.'.

(b) Penalties- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `or (q)' and inserting `(q), or (z)'.

Violations of any section of this bill shall constitute Sedition or Treason, and shall be punished by death.

btown02
04-18-2007, 08:13 PM
All this will do is just like the last time, the supply of anything FiveseveN will be bought up by scalpers looking to cash in on a possible ban. And like last time I hope they loose their shorts in trying to take advantage of this.

Medula Oblongata
04-18-2007, 08:25 PM
When the time comes, ammo will still be available from me at reasonable costs. No scalper driven pricing here. Just honest prices and quality ammo.

btown02
04-18-2007, 08:30 PM
No scalper driven pricing here.
You know what I ment. :) After the last time we had several drop by the forum wanting to whine and cry about they bought the guns thinking they would be banned and then lost money on the deals when it didn't happen. I hope it happens to those types once more.

Medula Oblongata
04-18-2007, 08:32 PM
Of course I do.. And I just couldn't resist the free plug :D

btown02
04-18-2007, 08:36 PM
Of course I do.. And I just couldn't resist the free plug
If by chance it did happen you and Panzer would have a hard time keeping up with the 5.7x28 demand. :D

Medula Oblongata
04-18-2007, 08:40 PM
We have that problem now, and we're not even in production.

Honestly, if I had a million pieces of brass, I could load them and sell them all right now.

When it comes to pricing for Subsonic, Tracer, etc. Look at the retail cost to LE agencies for factory ammo, and we'll be about 20% less, sold to the public. Only no AP will be sold to anyone but LEO's and Military. We couldn't stand the thought that our ammo might be misused.

BTW, did you actually read my tongue and cheek rendition of the PLEA act?? :D

btown02
04-18-2007, 08:45 PM
did you actually read my tongue and cheek rendition of the PLEA act??
Yep. :)

Medula Oblongata
04-18-2007, 08:46 PM
Dang, that was a lot of writing and thinking, and not even one :) or :D????

WTF's the matter with you guys???

Am I all anole on this one? (speaking to the voices in my head...)

btown02
04-18-2007, 08:53 PM
WTF's the matter with you guys???

Just looking at the two Pelican cases and thinking of all the time and money I have tied up in the weapons and then seeing this thing pop up again took all the fun away today. :cry:

panzermk2
04-18-2007, 09:04 PM
We have that problem now, and we're not even in production.




The exact words came out of my mouth as I read btowns post

panzermk2
04-18-2007, 09:07 PM
Now I just finished reading the whole thing Very funny and you need to put it on the blog

Esteves
04-18-2007, 10:27 PM
go ahead and ban ss190 and ss192. civvies can't get ss190 and i'm sure that the law will exempt leo. ss192 isn't made anymore, so we shouldn't really care. ok, unless you have a full can of ss192 sitting around, waiting for shtf. :D

Read it again. Besides the ammunition, they want to ban possession (no escape clause for prior ownership) of the FiveseveN too.

As I read it, any weapon/ammo combination capable of penetrating level IIA would be at the AG's (and any of their successors) discretion to ban at any time.

Actually, as I re-read it, the AG's discretion is even broader than that. For example, they can declare 3 layers of denimn to be body armor, the way it's worded, and ban whatever handgun that fires at least one cartridge that happens to penetrate 3 layers of denim.

This one is still poison.

btown02
04-18-2007, 10:30 PM
As I read it, any weapon/ammo combination capable of penetrating level IIA would be at the AG's (and any of their successors) discretion to ban at any time.

Yep, it would get a lot more than just the FiveseveN.

Medula Oblongata
04-18-2007, 10:39 PM
Now I just finished reading the whole thing Very funny and you need to put it on the blog
Done :D

Esteves
04-18-2007, 10:53 PM
Done :D
And, yes, your post was funny. I got distracted by the actual proposal, which offended me (again) to the point of not seeing humor.

Medula Oblongata
04-18-2007, 10:55 PM
Well, thankya... thankya very much, little momma... :D

Megatron
04-18-2007, 11:19 PM
That PLEF Act is great! :D

Esteves
04-19-2007, 02:07 AM
Dear Congressman XXX,

I am writing to you today to oppose H.R. 1784, which has been misleadingly called the Protection of Law Enforcement Act (PLEA).

This bill, and any legislation would ban firearms or ammunition, seriously erodes the rights of the people as outlined in the second amendment.

Please note that as written, the bill appears to focus on a particular firearm and ammunition, but also grants the Attorney General broad powers that could effectively ban the majority of handguns on the market or already in private possession today.

I support the goal of improved officer safety, but not at the expense law abiding citizens' rights. It would be better, in my opinion, to improve the minimal armor worn by some officers and improve the availability of such armor to those officers in order to provide greater protection from today's threats. Asking the criminals to give up their armor-piercing ammunition will not meet with success in reducing the real threat.

Thank you for your attention and consideration. Please write back and let me know your position on H.R. 1784.

Medula Oblongata
04-19-2007, 02:18 AM
"Dear vote seeking whore-

Honest people will submit to any law that is passed. However, criminals who intend to steal, cheat, rob, rape, and desecrate, will not.

Please do not vote for laws that will handicap the law-abiding amongst us and will prevent them from defending themselves.

Remember, your term of service is limited, and sooner or later, you will be one of us; limited and handicapped by the same restrictive ordinances that do little to deter criminals and much to prevent the honest from being able to defend themselves.

-RJ Herle Ph.D."

Your's is much more eloquent, Stephen. However I feel mine illustrates the point as well but has the added benefit of speaking to the terminally stupid. :)

Esteves
04-19-2007, 02:27 AM
LOL. My letter would have been different if my congress-critter had sponsored or co-sponsored it. Mine doesn't even have a category for 2A in her email auto-sorter, so I thought I'd start gently.

Medula Oblongata
04-19-2007, 02:48 AM
Your way is probably the best.

However, my way is what everyone wishes they could say, without being taken as a lunatic.

Call me looney, I plead to it gladly, if my letter is the standard!

Cyberfly
04-19-2007, 10:40 AM
Well MO, I read your version of the PLEF Act. Sorry I didn't respond sooner...been tied up chasing werewolves! LOL

I thought this part was particularly applicable to CongressCritters:

`(2) EXCEPTIONS- This subsection shall not apply to--

`(A) any person who had had a lobotomy;

I'm sure that many haven't actually had a lobotomy, they just ACT like they have.

Esteves
04-19-2007, 09:44 PM
haha, they are banning the ss190? you can tell they have no idea what they are talking about

The only reason that SS190 is mentioned is because it was designed to meet (and meets) certain criteria. It lets them state selected partial truths in order to inflate the apparent risk posed.

As we all know, the SS190 is not a common commodity available at every gunshop and Wal-Mart. FN has been pretty effective in controlling the distribution to LEO/Gov already, and banning the stuff through legislation probably wouldn't change anything that FN does to distribute the SS190.

A poisoned red herring built on the sand of emotional argument based on overstated and misleading half-truths.

Cyberfly
04-20-2007, 11:41 AM
A poisoned red herring built on the sand of emotional argument based on overstated and misleading half-truths.

Ooh, I like that. Can I borrow it? I'd like to add it to my arguments against anti-gunners...

Esteves
04-20-2007, 12:20 PM
Ooh, I like that. Can I borrow it? I'd like to add it to my arguments against anti-gunners...
Be my guest, anyone. You might be (accurately) accused of mixing metaphors, though.

panzermk2
04-20-2007, 04:40 PM
metaphors NOW? hell we are stiill working in speling

Medula Oblongata
04-20-2007, 04:56 PM
Are metaphors something like opiates?

If that's the case, I'll be happy to 'mix' them anyday :D

rips31
04-20-2007, 05:22 PM
Ooh, I like that. Can I borrow it? I'd like to add it to my arguments against anti-gunners...
ditto...

Esteves
04-20-2007, 09:22 PM
Are metaphors something like opiates?
Life on metaphors is like a box of opiates, or is that a cat box?

longshotink
05-10-2007, 12:29 AM
Wow....I remember mentioning something like this not too long ago, and I got lambasted for it......sucks to be right :( :( :( Im sure it wont pass, but damn.

btown02
05-10-2007, 03:43 AM
Wow....I remember mentioning something like this not too long ago, and I got lambasted for it......sucks to be right
What you mentioned before was something totally different and you were and still are wrong about it. This is something else all together.


http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5794

abpt1
05-10-2007, 08:58 AM
Dear Congressman XXX,

I am writing to you today to oppose H.R. 1784, which has been misleadingly called the Protection of Law Enforcement Act (PLEA).

This bill, and any legislation would ban firearms or ammunition, seriously erodes the rights of the people as outlined in the second amendment.

Please note that as written, the bill appears to focus on a particular firearm and ammunition, but also grants the Attorney General broad powers that could effectively ban the majority of handguns on the market or already in private possession today.

I support the goal of improved officer safety, but not at the expense law abiding citizens' rights. It would be better, in my opinion, to improve the minimal armor worn by some officers and improve the availability of such armor to those officers in order to provide greater protection from today's threats. Asking the criminals to give up their armor-piercing ammunition will not meet with success in reducing the real threat.

Thank you for your attention and consideration. Please write back and let me know your position on H.R. 1784.



+1 sent

longshotink
05-10-2007, 03:10 PM
"(2) prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase by civilians of the Five-seveN Pistol , ammunition for such pistol , or any other handgun that uses ammunition found to be capable of penetrating body armor."

longshotink
05-10-2007, 03:12 PM
The word importation being the key part....Which is sumular to what I had said, though it is not the same thing, it is also not totally different.

btown02
05-10-2007, 03:15 PM
"(2) prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase by civilians of the Five-seveN Pistol , ammunition for such pistol , or any other handgun that uses ammunition found to be capable of penetrating body armor."
Ok, and what does that line from a Bill pending in Congress have to do with your other thread about the rumor that the US had refused to renew FN's import license for the weapons and ammo? As I said two totally different things. You were indicating the license had already been denied based on the rumor you heard, which was and still is false as the license had already beed renewed.

longshotink
05-10-2007, 04:20 PM
Perhaps this bill is merely what I was told about. The attempt to ban importation and refusal to renew an import license.....semantics maybe, or the information based on the recollection and understanding of another person who then passed it on to me.

btown02
05-10-2007, 04:32 PM
The first version of this started back in 05. This is just the latest attempt at the same old thing. This Bill and an import license are like apples and watermelon. Both have juice but not the same thing, but it may be what the person who gave you the information was thinking about and just got mixed up. :)

longshotink
05-10-2007, 04:40 PM
I can certainly agree to that.

btown02
05-10-2007, 04:49 PM
The good news is that I doubt this will pass this time around either due to the wording it would remove a lot more ammo and weapons than just the 5.7x28, so all the different groups have to band together to fight it.

Esteves
05-10-2007, 05:36 PM
It's not very newsworthy since it's in committee and it's died before. None of the pro2A organizations are tracking (to the point of calling for action) it at this point.

Here's the introductory speech http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r110:1:./temp/~r110dKu1TQ:: by Mr. Engel which just leads me to believe that most politicians really are liars most of the time despite the honorific of "Honorable."

panzermk2
05-10-2007, 08:01 PM
ALTHOUGH an import ban woulod keep the 2 domestic makers of 5.7 even more busy



I post this in jest since I never really did forgive Bill Ruger and what he did in the purist from of GREED

Esteves
05-13-2007, 01:43 PM
I post this in jest since I never really did forgive Bill Ruger and what he did in the purist from of GREED

Topic drift, but I'll go with it. :) Import restrictions grew, in part, out of the domestic firearms industry's desire to "protect itself" from cheap imports (or re-imports, sometimes of their own products.) Manufacturers were having a difficult time staying price-competitive with the surplus market. Of course, once the slope gets slipped on the easiest course is to continue down...

What we have now (as a result) is definitely something less than the perfect ideal of a free market (but nothing in this world is perfect.)