View Full Version : 1 strike and you're out?

Medula Oblongata
03-07-2007, 07:58 PM
I am one who believes in forgiveness for the first conviction of most crimes... Using/selling drugs, assault, burglary, robbery, etc. I figure that most people are described correctly by Cicero when he said "rashness is the charactaristic of youth; prudence that of mellowed age." I also believe that there are certain crimes for which there should be no firgiveness, ever.

Among those unpardonable crimes I would list the "offending" of children and the malicious, intentional taking of innocent life. Heck, even Jesus of Nazareth said once that "it would be better that a millstone be placed around your neck, and ye be cast into the depths of the sea; than ye offend one of these, my little one's."

So where have we as a society gone so wrong that a repeat molester is released from prison? Twice convicted (with no guarantee that there weren't other, unreported molestations) and free within society.. Only this time to commit murder.

Mar 7, 4:23 PM (ET)


MIAMI (AP) - A sex offender was found guilty Wednesday of kidnapping and raping a 9-year-old girl and burying her alive in a case that led to a crackdown around the country on people convicted of sex crimes.

Jurors deliberated about four hours before returning the verdict against John Evander Couey in the slaying of Jessica Lunsford, who was snatched from her bedroom in 2005 about 150 yards from the trailer where Couey had been living.

Her body was found in a shallow hole, encased in two black plastic trash bags. She had suffocated, and was found clutching a purple stuffed dolphin.

The jury next must decide whether Couey, 48, should get death by injection or life in prison.

Couey admitted to investigators shortly after his arrest that he committed the crime, but the confession was thrown out because he did not have a lawyer present as he had requested.

The evidence at trial included DNA from Jessica's blood and Couey's semen on a mattress in his bedroom, as well as Jessica's fingerprints in a closet in the trailer.

Jail guards and investigators testified that Couey repeatedly admitted details of the slaying after his arrest and that he insisted he had not meant to kill the third-grader but panicked as police searched for her.

Couey had a record as a sex offender. In 1991, he was arrested on a charge of fondling a child. In 1978, he was accused of grabbing a girl in her bedroom, placing his hand over her mouth and kissing her.

But authorities had not known that Couey was living near the Lunsford home even though he was required to tell them he had moved.

Jessica's killing prompted Florida and a number of other states to pass new laws cracking down on sex offenders and improve tracking of them through databases and satellite positioning devices.


So, what do we do? Do we, as residents of the area, make life so difficult for them that they move? Do we warn our neighbors? How much responsibility do we as average private citizens have to protect our neighbors?

I for one am in favor of lynching this particular guy..

Never forget this face; she's everyone's daughter.

03-07-2007, 08:02 PM
The needle would be to good for this SOB. :mad: :(

03-07-2007, 08:05 PM
Hanging is too good. I once heard of a good punishment. You take subject and impaile him to the floor by his private. You hand him a plastic knife and then place the place on fire. His choice live without or death.

03-07-2007, 08:09 PM
Speaking of Impaling, I would have to ask, (WWVD) What Would Vlad the Impaler do?

Medula Oblongata
03-07-2007, 08:17 PM
Hanging is too good. I once heard of a good punishment. You take subject and impaile him to the floor by his private. You hand him a plastic knife and then place the place on fire. His choice live without or death.
How about deck screws through the genetalia, douse IT with petrol and set it on fire... Then set the building on fire and toss him a spork..

Seriously, what do we, as a society and a community do when our liberal 'justice for crooks' system sets these predators loose in our streets?

How far do we go as private citizens to protect ours and our neighbors children? Do we take 'matters' into our own hands? Do we absolutely scorn and ostracize them? Is there room for any forgiveness, ever, or is that between our Creator and them? Christ once said "The Father will forgive whom he forgives, but I require it of you to forgive all men."

I'm all for the paratrooper outlook on molesters, or, "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

Am I wrong? Am I not harsh enough?

03-07-2007, 08:19 PM
It took the Jury less than four hours to find him guilty and I would think it will take them a lot less time than that to give him the death penalty. Florida has had enough of his kind to last a lifetime.

Medula Oblongata
03-07-2007, 08:29 PM
But what about the others, out on the street?

I am using this particular case as an example as to how broken the system is..

James, as an LEO (Ret) what do you recommend that the average private citizen does to protect their families, neighbors, and communities?

Hoover 1
03-07-2007, 08:41 PM
How can someone (animal) kill a child? :mad:

Punishment needs to be swift/immediate.


03-07-2007, 08:48 PM
MO, if this con had complied with the law he could have been tracked online and everyone living around the area would have known what he was and where he lived. That is part of the problem, people think they will follow the law when released. I think the GPS tracking of child molesters is a start if they have to be let out. The one sure method is to lock them up and throw away the key since there is no cure for their kind. I would like to see life without parole first time up. As for protection, if a BG wants to get someone or into a building, we both know they will.

03-07-2007, 10:18 PM
They should be jailed for life - no appeal, no parole. Once convicted they should see sunlight again. New York is trying to pass a law that would place them in Mental Prison Wards after jail sentence is completed. It's a know fact that a child molesters never can be "healed or treated".

03-08-2007, 12:01 AM
I take my stance from the Bible: murder=death penalty.

Medula Oblongata
03-08-2007, 12:16 AM
I take my stance from the Bible: murder=death penalty.
Isn't there occaisonally mitigating circumstances for killing? Is all killing 'murder?'

Here's a real twisted paedophile..http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1173158152/Twisted_Old_Pedophile_Goes_Psycho_on_a_Reporter

Would it be wrong to walk up behind him and add air conditioning to his head?

03-08-2007, 12:57 AM
* It was only after the world was flooded with lawyers that anything was described "as taking matter into your own hands"....such acts costs lawyers untold losses of funds. Ergo
since lawyers run the place..they have decided such things are not to be tolorated.

Before lawyers, it was simply considered "taking out the trash".

Felons are simply nasty byproducts of intercourse,often by unskilled labor...and are easily replaced as there are a never ending supply.....shouldnt be wasted however, as they could be used as lowcost fertilizer, or as a protien additiive for cattle feed. Recycling...its good for the ecology, its good for the peace and quiet.


03-08-2007, 02:18 AM
Reguarding killing VS. murder: To kill in defense of yourself, family, friends, neighbors, nation, or property was allowed and even sometimes ordered by God in the bible. There were times that Israel was ordered by God to wipe out another nation for their sins (read crimes). This is greatly different than murder. Murder is for purely selfish means and was never acceptable.

Reguarding child mollesters: You need to be very certain of their guilt. I know of too many cituations where individuals have been falsly convicted of a crime. There are even cases where children have been coached to falsly accuse someone by a shrink.

As for those who there is no doubt, there should be no lengthly appeal process. Trials should be held one right after another until the system is through with them. No more than a year. Then following the final conviction they should be immediately taken out back and shot. 10 man firing squad and then left to die. No medical help. Should they not die within a few days, gather the firing squad and make a second attempt. Continue until dead.

They don't deserve a second chance (even with the ankle bracelet) and they don't deserve to have the oppertunity to escape from a detention facility.

As for the question of vigilante justice, frankly I wrestle with it. Part of me says that if the justice system cannot or will not protect society then it must protect itself. Part of me realizes that vigilante justice is a slippery slope for abuse.

I couldn't fault anyone else who killed one of these monsters. But there sure better be no question as to the guilt of the molester.

Frankly, that our society thinks that they should get a second chance makes me sick. :barf:

03-08-2007, 04:08 AM
Isn't there occaisonally mitigating circumstances for killing? Is all killing 'murder?'

Here's a real twisted paedophile..http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1173158152/Twisted_Old_Pedophile_Goes_Psycho_on_a_Reporter

Would it be wrong to walk up behind him and add air conditioning to his head?
Being a father of 3 my self..... Let me tell you, it is hard to see a scum like that walking free. As far as adding a/c on to his had, "i think it would be a vaist of othervise good piece of equipment........ "FOR ALL OF THE VANGENCE ARE BELONG TO THE LORD". Sounds like LORD doesnt want us to mess with HIS schedule. How ever, there is somethings sasiety can do to protect our little ones: beside all of the cosouling; terapy; incarsoration etc. How about a mandatory castration(sterilisation) ?to all convicted rapists prior to thair release to sesiety.? and i mean the etire pakege (balls;penis)and may be even hands for some "special edividuals". It may be harsh in some cases, but i think is nesessory.

Medula Oblongata
03-08-2007, 04:57 AM
He's already comitted rape, so what's a little throat slashing to go with that next time?

Published Thursday | March 8, 2007
14-year-old's rape suspect's case going to juvenile court

Robert Fountain Jr. stood on an air conditioner and hoisted himself into a 12-year-old girl's bedroom in August. Wearing a mask, he said he had a knife. He raped the girl, then threatened her again.

He was 14.

The next day, Fountain returned, stood on the air conditioner and pried at the window again. Neighbors chased him away.

He was 14.

A week later, Fountain returned again, slipped into the girl's bedroom and was chased away by police, who eventually arrested him.

He was 14.

After weighing those facts - and a psychological evaluation of Fountain - prosecutors agreed Wednesday to allow his case to be transferred to juvenile court.

The decision means Fountain, who had been charged as an adult, will admit his crimes in juvenile court and will be under its jurisdiction until he's 19.

It also most likely means that Fountain, who turns 15 on July 7, will receive long-term inpatient treatment for depression and learning disabilities, said his attorney, Douglas County Public Defender Tom Riley.

Douglas County Attorney Don Kleine said a psychologist concluded that Fountain would benefit from rehabilitative programs and treatment in juvenile court.

Had Fountain's case stayed in the adult system, he would have faced up to 50 years in prison on the rape charge. He also faced two counts of burglary, one count of attempted burglary and one count of weapon use.

"This was a terrible, terrible crime," Kleine said. "Obviously, this individual has some serious issues. But juvenile court is a very good system.

"We think this is an example of a case where we can hopefully help this child make some changes so this doesn't happen again and we're all better off."

The County Attorney's Office hasn't always capitulated to transfers to juvenile court. A few weeks ago, prosecutors opposed the transfer of 14-year-old Noe Gutierrez's first-degree murder case. They're awaiting a judge's ruling in that case.

Other 14-year-olds have been prosecuted as adults, most of them for slayings or shootings.

Kleine said he considered several factors, including the wishes of the victim's father, the psychologist's report and the defendant's background.

The victim's father told prosecutors he was OK with the transfer and understood the reasons for it, Kleine said. The father declined to comment to a reporter Wednesday.

Both Kleine and Riley said Fountain is far from the hardened 14-year-old that authorities sometimes encounter.

The 5-foot, 6-inch, 135-pound teenager was not involved in gangs. He had acted out in school but had no criminal history that progressed into this sexual assault charge.

Officers found a pornographic magazine in his belongings but Riley said Fountain had no Internet perversions or online predatory behaviors.

"He plays Pokemon on the computer," Riley said.

Riley said Fountain, raised by his father, is a soft-spoken, immature kid.

The psychologist who evaluated him found no psychotic or delusional behaviors that would require long-term or permanent medication, Riley said.

That makes finding out what triggered his behavior paramount, Riley said.

Fountain likely will go first to a secure facility to receive long-term treatment, Riley said. For now, he is housed in the Douglas County Youth Center.

"If he were sitting here, you would never think of him as being capable of what he's been accused of," Riley said. "Hopefully, the long-term treatment will provide answers not only to us but to him.

"You don't want to stick a ticking time bomb out on the streets. And to just say I'm going to put him in prison isn't a viable answer either."


03-09-2007, 02:01 PM
got to go with the general thoughts of wetwrks on this issue. Trouble is, how do "we" know for certain? Juries generally get it right, but sometimes they are stone WRONG. Wrong in favor of the defendant (OJ etc) and they sometimes get it wrong in favor of the prosecution i.e. many DNA based defense releases. A second conviction is clearly grounds for a capital consequence from any source. Getting that first shot at justice correct for both the victim and the accused is a very thorny issue indeed.

03-09-2007, 06:52 PM
That is why I wrestle with the thought of vigilantee justice.

Medula Oblongata
03-09-2007, 07:02 PM
Its only vigilante if its not your kid... Or so I tell myself.

What would I do if someone just touched my daughters?? Probably break his hands and legs. Molestation? I'd cease his respiration. Molest and murder? I'd probably ensure his whole family wasn't able to procreate.

03-09-2007, 08:24 PM
MO, I fear that I would be right there with ya. I've got seven kids. Two sets of twins sorta throws the national average out the window. The oldest five are all boys, but my twin girls...they are blonde headed and blue eyed and cute as a bug (but I am a bit prejudiced since they are mine!).
I watched the Couey trial...watched him color in his coloring books and doodle and totally ignore the whole thing. All to make folks think he is retarded. I think to myself, how can that dad sit there and NOT launch himself across the courtroom and choke the very life out of this scumbag?
He's a stronger man than I. I would have found a way to get a gun inside the courtroom and dispatched that SOB with due diligence. I wouldn't really care the consequences...and I don't think a jury could have found me guilty of anything other than 'temporary insanity'.
I can only hope and pray to God that I never have to find out.

03-09-2007, 10:27 PM
I would the scum into industerial incinerators and I would be happy to do it and not even feel the need to go to confession about it

03-14-2007, 05:33 PM
persoanlly i view rape as worse than murder and should be dealt with similarly. murder can be a crime of passiuon but rape is a crime of habit, and justified by a warped core philosophy that stays consistent throughout life and is in a whole different league than simply flying off the handle and killing someone in an isolated incident that could have mitigating circumstances.

it's just such a violation, it's right up there with taking a life, it's like killing that leaves the victim alive, it totally removes their choice. it's a murder of the will, and worse when it happens young because it's just that much longer the victim will have to live irrerprably scarred. add to that the sheer horror of something like that to a hapless innocent who still trusts people, and i don't see some of the short sentences they get.

we do, of course, have to differentiate this from so-called "sex crimes" like lying nude in the home visible only to ladder-wielding neighbors a la Medula's friend..

03-14-2007, 06:14 PM
Death sentence endorsed in Lunsford case

By CURT ANDERSON, Associated Press Writer 10 minutes ago

A jury decided Wednesday that a convicted sex offender should get the death penalty for the kidnapping, rape and murder of 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford, who was buried alive in trash bags just yards from her home.

The jury, on a 10-2 vote, brushed aside pleas for mercy and a life sentence from defense lawyers based on claims that John Evander Couey, 48, is mentally retarded and suffers from chronic mental illness. Jurors deliberated for about one hour.

The final decision on Couey's fate will be made in several weeks by Circuit Judge Richard Howard, who is not bound by the jury's recommendation but is required to give it "great weight."

The Lunsford family showed no overt emotion when the decision was read, nor did Couey.

Couey, 48, was convicted last week of taking Jessica in February 2005 from her bedroom to his trailer about 150 yards away, where he raped and killed her. Despite an intensive search, the third-grader's body wasn't found until about three weeks after she disappeared in a grave outside Couey's home.

In closing statements, prosecutor Ric Ridgway called the crime "evil" and asked jurors to remember how Jessica died by suffocating in the hole Couey dug, accompanied inside the plastic bags only by a toy dolphin.

"She was in pain. In the dark. She was certainly terrified," Ridgway said in his closing statement. "If this is not the person who deserves the death penalty, who does?"

Defense lawyers pleaded for mercy, arguing that Couey deserved no more than a life sentence in prison because of mental retardation and mental illness, neglect as a child and the effects of alcohol and drug abuse.

"No matter what you do, John Couey is going to die in prison," said defense attorney Alan Fanter. "No child should have to die the way Jessica Lunsford did. But justice is not vengeance."

Mentally retarded people cannot be executed under both Florida law and a 2002 U.S. Supreme Court decision. Ridgway scoffed at defense claims of extreme mental problems, noting that Couey carefully planned the crime and repeatedly lied to police in an attempt to escape blame.

"Does the defendant have mental problems? Probably," Ridgway said. "They are not extreme. They do not control him."

Earlier Wednesday, psychologist Harry McClaren testified that Couey is able to adapt to day-to-day life despite any mental challenges, including low IQ. Defense experts said Couey has an IQ of 64, below the standard retardation level of 70.

McClaren said a combination of tests and interviews with Couey's family, friends and former co-workers led him to the conclusion that the convicted sex offender is average in those abilities. Couey held construction and factory jobs that required some complex tasks and was called a "good worker" by a former boss at a restaurant.

"In my opinion, he was able to function at a level higher than would be expected of a person with mental retardation," McClaren said.

Medula Oblongata
03-14-2007, 08:30 PM
I find no satisfaction in his execution, no solace,
For the deeds he has done cannot be washed clean.
When his life is extinguished I will think on him no more;
and instead wipe his memory from my mind as an insect from my shoe.


03-14-2007, 10:25 PM
Being mentally retarded is never an excuse to commit horrible crimes against children.

Death is the only solution to those who commit those crimes.

03-15-2007, 12:48 AM
They need to put him in a cell with bubba for a few years, then put him in a hole to suffocate... :(

03-15-2007, 01:12 AM
They need to put him in a cell with bubba for a few years, then put him in a hole to suffocate... :(
So he can enjoy it ? :(

Medula Oblongata
03-15-2007, 02:20 AM
So he can enjoy it ? :(

Or so bubba could enjoy it???

The irony is fantastic!

03-15-2007, 10:43 AM
this Bubba really gets around, hehe..

but vitaliy has a point, sadly. generally i think anyone who could do such a thing would necessarily have to have a serious break with reality, and that sort of dissociation only comes from serious emotional trauma. this guy obviously had cognitive functioning, he was just psychotic. had to be. i want justice for this family but the thought that an even slightly sane person could ever do this is just too scary to entertain..

i think lifetime institutionalisation in a place for criminally insane might be in order here. at least then all would be assured this person won't offend again. but there really can be no justice in these situations. this guy died a long time ago..

03-15-2007, 10:57 AM
Call me weird, or simply a texan, but I've always believed in the "eye for an eye" type of justice.

If people knew what could and will happen to them if they do some of the sick and crazy stuff, they might think twice.

Almost 2 years ago, my wifes best friend was murdered execution sytle outside a bowling alley in Euless, he was fortunitly caught and was found guilty... I was told he recieved life. I was really wishing he would get death. Sometimes it doesn't seem fair that these people can just rot in jail, or get a lethal injection , all along when this guy shot a girl in the head point blank while 2 girls held her down.

Medula Oblongata
03-15-2007, 12:20 PM
Call me sick, but I've always been a fan of stoning murders and rapists to death.

03-15-2007, 12:21 PM