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gunnut66
04-14-2006, 12:09 AM
Is anyone loading rounds for the ps90. I have been loading rounds for the five seven for over a year with no trouble. Since I started loading ammunition for the PS 90 I been having problems with the rounds ejecting properly in both my green and black units factory ammunition functions normally with no problems. I've tried using RCBS dies and Hornady dies. After sizing and trimming the cases I meet factory measurements from the case head to shoulder and shoulder degree and overall case length. I've tried using small standard pistol primers small magnum pistol primers small rifle primers with virtually the same results. I've tried changing powder charges from 5.5 grains all the way up to 7.2 grains of true blue powder with the same results. All of this I have been using the Hornady 40 grain V-max bullet. I am looking to find out if there's anyone out there who successfully loading this round for the PS 90 rifle and not the five seven pistol. At this point the only thing that I am not doing that the factory rounds are doing is lacquering cases and sealing the bullets and primers and crimping the primers in place as I do not have nor will I purchase this equipment I need to find a way around it. So if anyone is loading this and having success please let me know

ruf
04-14-2006, 11:02 AM
"Wildcatter" is loading for the PS90.

http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638

Wildcatter
05-28-2006, 07:49 PM
Sorry I have not replied. I've been pretty busy.

I have that same problem with all other than once fired cases. After firing and resizing more than once, the laquer case coating is damaged thereby increasing case friction.

I think I have a fix. If starline is going to be making cases for the 5.7 soon, we all need to suggest that they nickel-plate them. They already offer numerous other cases in nickel. Nickel will increase the lubricity of the cases dramatically. I am certain it will work as a replacement for laquer coating. You would be able to tumble your brass and get at least 10 loadings with moderate loads.

I'm going to put in the suggestion to Starline right now. Everybody do the same.

Use the Starline Response Form at:
http://www.starlinebrass.com/

Wildcatter
05-28-2006, 07:58 PM
I have been loading for the 5.7 PS90 from FN for a few months now. The design of the nearly straight case requires a laquer coating to assure positive extraction in this blow-back operation platform. Every time I resize my laquer coated cases I gall the laquer coating thereby increasing friction of the case to chamber fit. My cases can only be reloaded once due to this issue. I think that nickel plated cases are in order for this round to increase the lubricity of the case. What input do you have on this idea? Will nickel plating offer the same (but long lasting) benefit as a laquer coating? :cheers:

Medula Oblongata
05-28-2006, 08:30 PM
Nickel is a little more slick than brass, but not that much. When reloading nickel tumbles clean a lot faster and looks prettier, but that is about all. I have not noticed any real benefeit to loading my 45 Super in either brass or nickel cases. Both seem to last the same amount of firings, and the pressure used to resize the case is about the same (I can't feel any difference).

I am going to call a friend of mine next week who is a metallurgist and get his take on the brass vs. nickel lubrocity issue. I do think that nickel would be pretty though, however it might make the brass too expensive for me to consider buying.

On a seperate note, with some of my cases that I have reloaded near a dozen times that have NO laquer left, I use a solution of powdered micah in an alcohol base and spray it on the cases, let dry, and shoot. This seems to solve the extraction issue in my pistol. I think that industrial molybdenum disulfide (dry moly) sprays may be the way to go. I get spray cans of it from a local industrial supply house for about $8 a can. I use in on all kinds of high friction devices (even diamond saw blades). It acts like spray paint and seems to stay put.

Anyway, I like the powdered micah in alcohol solution. It works really good.

Best of luck in your project.

BTW 7.2 of true blue is quite hot. I have noticed that when I load even a virgin case (pull projectile for future use and discard factory powder) REALLY hot the brass often will not extract automatically. This is because the extreme pressure puts too much force on the case to chamber contact area and the brass is literally "stuck" until it cools a little and shrinks. After that extraction is easy. When I am shooting really hot stuff I would say that 75% or more of the cases fail to cycle automatically. Anyways, just a thought.

msw
05-28-2006, 08:34 PM
Done.

Wildcatter
05-28-2006, 09:01 PM
I thought about the moly spray before the nickel idea came to mind. I'm afraid that the cases will "shed" moly into the magazine and action of my PS90. Does the mica solution shed from the case to a large degree?

Medula Oblongata
05-28-2006, 09:31 PM
Dont know...

I use so little of it (28 grams per piint of alcohol) that I have not noticed anything out of the ordinary. I am not really religious about cleaning my weapons either. I like to see how long I can shoot one before it becomes so fouled that operation/accuracy is noticeable changed. I went about 4500rds one time in the FiveseveN, and am currently up to about 13000 on my USP elite (HK has gone 20k in factory testing). I remove the slide before shooting each range session and blow out any debris that have settled, but that is it.

I guess if it is shedding its either such a small amount it doesn't affect things, or maybe it help a little... I would guess that any debris shed from the case would be easy to clean out of the magazine and rifle and probably woulden't affect operation to a large degree. After all there are plenty of soot particles, lead dust, copper particles, etc. from normal operation of the weapon. If the moly lube adds a little more, perhaps a more frequent cleaning would be necessary.

Targetguy
05-29-2006, 10:46 PM
do you think that tumbeling the cases in moly like bullets are done would help? this seems to impregnate the surface of the bullets a lot more than spray would.

StormWrangler
05-30-2006, 12:53 AM
Has anyone done the research to find out what kind of factory lacquer is applied to the cases? I know I have seen lots of posts on this forum discussing the lacquer and the problems that occur when it is rubbed off the cases.

Medula Oblongata
05-30-2006, 10:55 AM
do you think that tumbeling the cases in moly like bullets are done would help? this seems to impregnate the surface of the bullets a lot more than spray would.

Dont know. I would want to know if the moly would contaminate the powder or have adverse affects on the primer or ignition first. I would also want to know if the reduction in case capacity from the molybdenum would affect anything also. I would think that the bullets are a little more porous and softer than the brass case so that may be why tumbling then allows more to accumulate. The case is pretty hard alloy in comparison, and because of the internal pressure of firing, very dense. It would be an interesting experiment, however, assuming that it did not affect the powder or case to bullet tension.

I think someone needs to try this out and report back... Maybe I will.

BTW the major powder companies recommend that you don't tumble loaded ammo. It could cause the powder in the case to be pulverized into smaller pieces that could burn faster (or detonate) and damage the gun and the hand holding it. I have been tumbling old 30-06 with rod powder to remove some old tape that my dad used to bunch test rounds together and have noticed an increase in velocity compared to the ones that I didn't tumble (about 50 - 100fps). I disasembled a few of them and did notice slightly more "broken pieces" than in the ones that were not tumbled. Anyway, I intend to continue tumbling them, but this may be undesireable for flake powders. My point is that the moly should be applied to the case before loading, not tumbled on afterwards, just to be safe.

ruf
05-30-2006, 11:42 AM
I remember asking Hornady about the possibility of making cases treated with thier proprietary black nickel coating. Not much response.

kenny
12-29-2006, 06:50 PM
First time poster, long time reader and I'm probably going to get beat up for this. But here goes.
The nickel coating my end up causing a problem in the reloading proses. Let me explane. I have experienced this with my 50AE. (w/ 2nd fired nickel brass) When it is resized little flakes of nickel will come off and get traped between the case and die. This scratches the die and in turn the very next case sized. RCBS has no problem replacing the die but the wate is a pain. They make two suggestions. 1. lube it excessively 2. buy carbide dies The reason this is a concern is because of the high pressure in the 5.7. A scratched case would not be a good idea.
Gust a thought. Go ahead and beat up all you want.
On another note, thanks for havein' a great forum. Its what got me to buy the Five-seveN in the first place. ( well that and the other reviews / test data )

btown02
12-29-2006, 07:04 PM
The nickel coating my end up causing a problem in the reloading proses.
Welcome to the forum. We try and not beat anyone up on their first post. There is no nickel coating on 5.7x28mm ammo. :)

Medula Oblongata
12-29-2006, 07:21 PM
First time poster, long time reader and I'm probably going to get beat up for this. But here goes.
The nickel coating my end up causing a problem in the reloading proses. Let me explane. I have experienced this with my 50AE. (w/ 2nd fired nickel brass) When it is resized little flakes of nickel will come off and get traped between the case and die. This scratches the die and in turn the very next case sized. RCBS has no problem replacing the die but the wate is a pain. They make two suggestions. 1. lube it excessively 2. buy carbide dies The reason this is a concern is because of the high pressure in the 5.7. A scratched case would not be a good idea.
Gust a thought. Go ahead and beat up all you want.
On another note, thanks for havein' a great forum. Its what got me to buy the Five-seveN in the first place. ( well that and the other reviews / test data )

Nothing to beat you up over, I assure you!

At this time the only brass available is fired casings of factory ammo. They are all 100% brass, there never has been any nickel.

The only dies available are standard steel dies. While carbide would be nice, nobody has made true lubeless rifle dies since Hollywood in the 1970's. I happen to have a set in .30-06 and they are fantastic.

Lubing is absolutely necessary when using a steel die, and to a lesser extent when using carbide, if for nothing more than ease of resizing. Too much lube is as bad as too little (or none at all). It can dent shoulders and cause cases to stick in the die. It is absolutely necessary to remove the lube when you are finished as reliability when fired will suffer if you do not.

I wash my brass in simple green and warm water. Works good. I then let it dry over night on a floor vent.

Best regards!

P.S.

Feel free to ask any question you wish and cannot find an answer for after having used the search feature. I guarantee if you have thought of it, it has already been answered, however the location of the answer may be hard to find. We don't have a problem helping people to find the answers in the slightest. What we hate are the noob's who jump on here and demand that we give them all the answeres right away without their having to do anything on their part. Those guys we can't stand. But those who are having trouble always find assistance when they diligently search and then politely ask for help.

kenny
01-03-2007, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the reply.
I knew that the only brass available was 100% brass. I just saw where some one was asking star line about potentially makeing some in nickel, and just wanted to relay my experience.
One more thing. I know that this was on another post but I did receve a e-mail from Wolf last week saying.
"Unfortunately we no longer have any plans on offering that caliber at this time. Thank you for your inquiry and interest in WOLF Performance Ammunition."
Sorry for it being in the rong place, but thought that Wolf would have been a place to get some inexpensive ammo and in turn cheeper brass. ( I know quality brass / tricky cartridge)
Thanks for your time and experience.

herstal
01-12-2007, 02:57 AM
kenny, the 50 AE cases are really thick and don't "flex" much while being resized, always use carbide dies (when possible) and lube the cases too, it will make their reloading a lot easier on you.. In 23 years of reloading, I have never seen nickel peel off on the 45 acp or 38-357 mag cases as they are not as thick the 50 AE. they usually flake off after at least a dozen reloads and a few tumbling sessions.
nickel plating the 5.7 might work, as anybody tried the sizing dry lube on the cases as a friction reducer before shooting the reloads??

Medula Oblongata
01-12-2007, 08:24 AM
Yes, I have used powdered micah on some of my reloads, didn't seem to make much difference in super high pressure reloads. Moderate stuff doesn't seem to even need the factory laquer coating.

Read around a little. Guys have tried all kinds of tricks to add lubrication, and by and large we have determined that all sizing lube needs to be removed from the cases before firing or the brass will stick in the chamber.

Feel free to ask any questions though. If I and the others can't answer them out of hand, we can atleast point you in the right direction!

herstal
01-12-2007, 03:17 PM
Thank you medula, you answered two question i had, since I am not looking for hot loads,( the ss197 is plenty good for me) I won't have to worry about "lubing" it. Cool.