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mp2go1
02-28-2006, 10:16 PM
i remember reading someone that mentioned what the factory powder was,(true blue?) but cant seem to find it with the search feature. would anyone happen to remember what it is? thank you.

748
02-28-2006, 11:21 PM
I think that was in the Unique thred.

gunnut66
03-01-2006, 12:19 AM
The powder is imported by Western powder and is called ram shot trueblue brand the powder is extremely fine and works very well I've reloaded over 2000 rounds with 6.1 grains and 40 grain Hornady V-max bullet with Winchester small pistol primers and I'm currently getting an average of 1800 fps velocity out of the 5.7 pistol

hk91666
03-01-2006, 03:23 PM
I noticed Midway had the true blue in it's brochure.

wildeye111
03-02-2006, 11:36 PM
Hello,

Look under the thread "Vihtavuori Powders" post #4. Hope this helps.

hk91666
03-03-2006, 11:17 AM
It does for me Thanks and Thanks for the links to the Belgium powder Company. I only wanted to point out Midaway seemd to have true blue. I have my dies but have not accquired my lee auto prime shell holder yet.

Rnelson11
03-03-2006, 06:03 PM
I drove down to Anderson today, 50 miles, and bought a pound of True Blue. It looks a lot like the factory FN powder but unless a difference in color and a slight difference in consistency can be explained by lot number then it's not exacly the same. I plan to take a couple more factory rounds apart so I can compare volumn.

mp2go1
03-03-2006, 06:52 PM
thanks everyone for the replies. all the info is greatly appreciated.

Rnelson11
03-04-2006, 06:06 AM
By the way these 2 powders could be the same. The powder I bought could be fresher and hasn't been run through the loader at the factory. I need to check the volumn and compare charge weights.

Rnelson11
03-04-2006, 07:46 AM
I took the powder from 2 more factory rounds (so I had enough) and checked the volumn. I used a factory case and filled it to the top, leveled it and weighed the powder. I did this 3 times with the factory powder and True Blue. The factory powder weighed 11.30 grains average and the True Blue was 11.77 average. That's only 4% difference but with the other inconsistancies I cannot say it's exactly the same. By the way, it does say 'Manufactured in Belgium for Western Powders' on the can.

Medula Oblongata
03-04-2006, 12:45 PM
I have pulled a bunch of 192 and 195, but I failed to notice if the powder was compressed in the factory loads. My hearing is damaged so I cannot shake a cartrige and hear the powder moving around. Here is a thought though. Were the factory powder compressed, the grains could have been smashed into smaller pieces, and contrary to propuler belief, smaller pieces usually mean more airspace between particles and therefore lighter weights for a known volume.

This is often noticed by geological engineers when determining the weight of a known volume of sand versus the same volume of rock. Even though it seems logical that the sand would weigh more, it is fact weighs less. There is more air space between the small particles, than between the large ones comprising the compared rock. Seems counter-intuitive, but tis the truth.

If the charge is not compressed, it still could have been broken down slightly during shipping. Who knows?

I wanted to put the factory powder under a mass spectrometer or gas chromatograph to compare it to trueblue, but never got the chance before I quit BATFE.

Also, 4% volume to weight difference is within most powder manufacturers guidelines for variations between lots. That is why the manufacturers beg people to not mix different lots together. I personally have had 3 different lots of IMR 700X that varied as much as 7% volume to weight, so 4% is not too troubling to me.

I use TrueBlue at 6.5grns for 35grn VMax loads, and 6.2 - 6.3 for 40grn loads. I have loaded it as hot as 7.0 with a 35grn bullet, without dangerous pressure signs. I just like the way it feels when shot at those charge weights.

SixForSure
03-04-2006, 02:05 PM
What is the velocity with the 35grn/6.5grn load from a five-seven?

Medula Oblongata
03-04-2006, 02:38 PM
I believe it was averaging about 1900fps. I tested these rounds about a year and a half ago, and I don't have my notes with me from that period (they are sitting at my house in Nebraska). So, that is just from recollection.

Rnelson11
03-05-2006, 05:43 AM
I've loaded 32 rounds with True Blue to see if it fires the same (recoil, noise, case throw, etc.).
I really hope it is the same. The more I look at the 2 powders the more it appears that the factory powder has just been handled rough. The main particles are the same size but the factory powder has more broken pieces and it is only a little lighter in color.

Rnelson11
03-06-2006, 08:41 PM
I shot the True Blue rounds yesterday and was very impressed. If True Blue is not the same as factory powder then it's very close. These rounds fired vertually the same as factory. I'm not the first to use this powder, as a mater of fact I found my starting point in another thread (I think MO posted it). I plan to do more testing as soon as my cases come in the mail.

Esteves
03-07-2006, 12:45 AM
I'd still be interested to see what the chrony says regarding a gently pulled SS192/SS195 reloaded into an unfired case packed with an equal (to the original factory powder) weight of True Blue. With careful seating, that should eliminate all of the variables other than the powder. If the reload clocks the same velocities as the factory round, then True Blue is probably "close enough for gummint work."

Rnelson11
03-07-2006, 04:54 AM
I'll try it. I already have 2 primed cases and bullets from my last test so I just need to pull 1 more to measure the powder.

averyre
03-07-2006, 11:13 AM
Presently have rcbs dies on the way. From reading this thread it seems 6.1 gr of Ram Shot True Blue using 40 gr bullets would be a good starting point. Also noted success with Winchester small pistol or CCI small rifle primers.

Just ordered Berger match grade varmint 40 gr .224 bullets. Any bullet types to recommend or avoid? Any further pointers on establishing COL appreciated. Thanks.

Medula Oblongata
03-07-2006, 04:56 PM
I like TrueBlue over any other powder except Viht 3N37 (for my 55grn loads). It is easy to measure, easy to handle, and when spilled on a desk, it eask to clean up. Not only that it is fairly clean and has a perfect amount of graphite on it to help with lubing the measure.

My prefered case length is 1.1345" and I try to get my OAL all the way up to 1.585". with the longer bullets like the VMax, Nosler ballistic tip, and sierra BlitzKing, you can achieve factory length (1.585" of thereabouts). With shorter obive bullets you will have to determine your own seating depth based upon projectile length and how much of the bullet is in contact with the case throat. You must have enough of it in the case to have a uniform starting pressure. I like to make sure that my short ogive bullets are seated to the bottom of the neck, as close to flush or slightly deeper (maybe 1/500th past the neck).

averyre
03-07-2006, 05:59 PM
Thanks for the good info. - will be using it soon.

Rnelson11
03-11-2006, 07:29 AM
I've found that 3N37 works good with 55 grain bullets as long as you use moderate loads. I've tried to push them to 1600 fps and anything over 1400 fps will not eject every time. I've used HS6 with good results from 1000 fps to 1600 fps.

Rnelson11
03-12-2006, 06:09 AM
...Shot 3 rounds yesterday. I removed the powder from 3 rounds and replaced it with True Blue. The rounds contained 6.5 grains of factory and I used 6.5 grains of True Blue. The factory rounds are sealed and very hard to pull. I resized the cases and seated the original bullet but it was not 'glued in' as factory. The rounds fired just like 195LF but were a bit faster. The average speed was 2295 fps with speeds of 2304, 2271 and 2311. St De was 21.

I also tested some 40 grain V-Max bullets with True Blue yeaterday. These were the best loads I've ever tested with the 5.7X28. 5.9 grains of True Blue with 40 grain bullets had vertually no recoil and averaged 1803 fps. These were also the most accurate rounds I've ever shot. I went up to 6.3 grains of powder which gave 1885 fps and showed no signs of high pressure. They did have some recoil but it was about normal for my close to max loads using other powders. And the testing continues........